Coronia....

[teesships]

As WATCHFUL, completed Fellows & Co., Great Yarmouth, 1935
1935 BRIT - 1939 WATCHFUL - 1945 BRIT - 1951 YORKSHIRE LADY - 1968 CORONIA - 2020 WATCHFUL

Hartlepool - 14 November 2020:

Ron M

[northeast]

Re my earlier query about her wartime service and particularly Dunkirk, on further info I have updated our page here:

http://www.shippingandshipbuilding.uk/v ... essel=BRIT

You will see that I have not yet found any record re Dunkirk.

[Hornbeam]

The couple and the volunteers have done well with the work they have done on her and I wish them well as the last venture at Hartlepool concerning a Tug/ Cafe did not fair well. In regards to Dunkirk there was a "Caronia" at Dunkirk but not this one as she was called HMT Watchful at the time neither was it the "Caronia" owned by Jack Ellis which was at Scarborough before this Watchful ex Caronia ex HMT Watchful. The Caronia owned by Jack Ellis also had War Service but not at Dunkirk.
Not saying the Watchful was not at Dunkirk I do hope she was as the Little Ships deserve their place in History and to be remembered but like N.E. I am having difficulty tracing her involvement in that great rescue as the Caronia that was there is a different vessel.

[northeast]

These small pleasure steamers are a problem to disentangle

The first 'original' CORONIA was from Warren at New Holland in 1935 and I have not seen claims of her being at Dunkirk, she can be seen on Google Earth at the centre of the marina at Cuxton on the Medway, said to be for sale but I guess just scrap value now
http://www.shippingandshipbuilding.uk/v ... el=CORONIA

The other one that has 'yet to be substantiated' claims re Dunkirk is the former OULTON BELLE now 'Dunkirk Museum' as REGAL LADY at Scarborough
http://www.shippingandshipbuilding.uk/v ... LTON+BELLE
Recently had an exchange with a man who personally knew her skipper pre and post war who said she was 'too slow and coal thirsty' to make Dunkirk but this skipper was in the RN at the time so we are trying to find who her skipper was in 1940 as OULTON BELLE.

[northeast]

p.s. looked at the Assoc. of Dunkirk Little Ships site on Facebook (where I'm not a member) and it has a photo of WATCHFUL at sea off Hartlepool ... I thought she was just static
Their comment includes
"Summer 1939 was the last time for six years that she was to sail as a pleasure steamer. On the 16th September 1939 she was taken over by the Admiralty for war duties and renamed H.M.S. Watchful. H.M.S. Watchful is reported to have sailed to Dunkirk and returned three times, where she saved 900 lives. After her heroic dash to Dunkirk she returned to the East Coast ports to serve out the rest of the war."
So once again she is given the HMS prefix which she didn't have (HMS WATCHFUL was shore base) and just repeating the well-worn 900 lives, I really would like to see a log of her voyages.

[Hornbeam]

Interesting N.E. of all the sources available I would have thought that the Little Ships would be the most accurate unless things have gone downhill since Raymond Baxter passed away, as I indicated if possibly a previous owner looked up her history under the name of ' Caronia' he would have found a 'Caronia' attended Dunkirk and assumed it was the 'Watchful'ex 'Caronia' .
The Devil is in the detail and as you have pointed out HMS Watchful was a 'Stone Frigate' and the 'Watchful' at Hartlepool is afloat with a nice pair of Gardners fitted (one of the best small Diesel engine makers and a pleasure to work on) and was a HMT.
You have to wonder just how accurate the information is bearing in mind that error and as I have mentioned in my previous I hope she was at one of the greatest rescues of WW2 as the Bravery of the mainly Civilian Crews and their Little Ships should never be forgotten.

[northeast]

I also hope she was there but I'm a chap who likes to see facts, as I wrote in 2018:
"Apart from your local press this is also in the National Historic Ships write-up although perhaps a cautious wording 'reportedly rescued 900 troops'. But the exhaustive work by John de S. Winser ' B.E.F. Ships before, at and after Dunkirk' makes no mention of her at all, despite having an exhaustive list of vessels and landings at English ports 27 May - 5 June 1940. I could understand some smaller numbers being missed, but surely not 900? Strange."
One issue could be that some small vessels were used to ferry troops out to larger ones including warships offshore so would not be credited with landings in Dover, Ramsgate etc.
I guess that any crew are unlikely to be alive 81 years later but may have passed on memories of such a famous event to families.

p.s. what about the photo of her at sea as now restored, surely Stan would not have missed her so has she been out or not?

[Hornbeam]

Looking at the photograph N.E. I would definitely say it is an actual rather than a photochop job as her new owners are stated to have had her Drydocked on the Tees, in actual fact she was not Drydocked but Slipped at the Yard which was once the old TCC Graving Dock (now filled in) where recently they built a number of Hulls for Parkol which were launched off the same slip, the photograph must have been taken on the way back to Hartlepool. Attached is the file of the Caronia that was at Dunkirk a different vessel altogher and one that was built to take the beach.

[northeast]

We are straying a bit here from CORONIA, but this CARONIA you mention was a small cruiser built in Cornwall in 1927 and in 1940 owner was Lloyd F. Light of the Black Horse Tavern, Richmond (on Thames) so no doubt one of the many gathered together from Thames-based owners. De Winser comments 'at Dover 2 June'.

Also not to be confused with the steam coaster CORINIA which was involved in evacuations from St. Malo and Guernsey.

[Hornbeam]

So what options are we left with,
Option 1, the Watchful ex Caronia ex HMT Watchful was at Dunkirk but there seems to be some doubt at the moment.

Option 2, possibly before t'internet was in widespread use sombody has looked up 'Caronia' bearing in mind she was built before WW2 and wanting to know if she had any War Service and found that there was a vessel named 'Caronia' at Dunkirk and a previous Owner has made an honest mistake in thinking it was the same vessel.


Option 3, That a previous Owner has used the somewhat tenuous connection to encourage members of the public to take a trip on her as an Historic Vessel which took part in one of the greatest rescues of all time to increase ticket sales and this tenuous connection has been passed down from Owner to following Owner. et al.

I know that genuine mistakes can be made when it comes to ships and their names as I knew Jack (John) Ellis the Owner of the pre War built 'Caronia' until he died in 1950 when she was sold along with his Fishing interests and have often been contacted by others in regards to memory's of her only to find they were remembering a different 'Caronia ' which sailed out of Scarborough.